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Dr. Katrina Marchant on Handbag Designer 101 Podcast Every Tuesday




Emily Blumenthal

Host

00:00

Hi and welcome to the Handbag Designer 101 podcast with your host, emily Blumenthal, handbag designer expert and handbag fairy godmother, where we cover everything about handbags from making, marketing, designing and talking to handbag designers and industry experts about what it takes to make a successful handbag. I'm Dr Katrina Marchant to handbag designer 101 the podcast. I'm super excited to have you on board. Well, thank you, I'm glad to be here. Yes, we connected, I believe, over LinkedIn, where I stalked you and tracked you down. You know anybody who speaks. The history of the handbag, where so many people lack that, I don't want to say basic information, but truly the origin of what a handbag was used for and so forth. All of this so speaks to, I think, in my opinion today and recognizing the value of functionality and where all this meant and how this impacts design. So you want to give your intro and we could just get started on a sexy chat about handbags and history. Fabulous, I love it. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

01:12

Yeah, so my background is as a scholar of early modern literature and drama. I did my PhD in that broad topic. The smaller topic was I looked at how the words trash and trifle get used over around about a hundred year period and it was very niche. But I think it kind of gave me an overriding desire to approach history slightly differently to how a lot of other people do it, and I think it sort of ties into anthropology and sociology. As human beings, most of us and I think communally we aim towards the positive, the aspiration of the original, and so when we look at the past or communities, we try and find what they are aspiring to. When we look at their actions we go what are they aiming for? And I think through my study it's made me go that's half the story, because the other half of the story is what are they looking to avoid? What are they seeking to not have happened? And so those kinds of stories of objection and rejection and trashing are of the story we aren't really getting, I think. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

02:21

Right, right, 100%. So how does this tie into what you do and the research you've come across with handbags from the horror genre story to these particular time periods? 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

02:36

So after I finished studying, I decided that I wanted to avoid being an academic full time. 

02:42

I wanted to do that, so well done. 

02:45

This is where I want to object myself, and so I looked into various things and I realized I wanted to work in heritage. 

02:53

And there's a group of people who work in my country and I believe, in your country too and they are called live costumed historic interpreters, and they are people that get dressed up in clothes without zips and frequently without poppers, and they tell the stories of the past in reconstructed and period appropriate dress. And through doing that it's that kind of it merged, that experimental archaeology part of it, and it gave me this other understanding of how the past might have worked. I don't think that experimental archaeology is the full story, but I think that through doing that, you can uncover things that you might not have uncovered otherwise, and one of the things that I love the most and also fueled my fury about how women's clothes design today is I'm putting on these garments and I can fit so many things into pockets and bags that are, in some cases, completely discreet in this elaborate garment. It doesn't ruin the line, it is secure under about five layers of petticoats and I thought to myself we've lost something in the functionality of what a handbag is supposed to be. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

04:08

So, in doing all this research and so forth, I think one of your studies, something of yours, caught my eye in terms of the origin from this time period, of what a handbag was about, the kind of handbags they used. Can you speak a little bit about that? And obviously there's this the huge impact of the creation of the pocket when it comes out and then when handbags come back after that. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

04:35

Yes, so the handbag that we've had from, I think, as long as we've had image making and storytelling and people need to carry things, it's a sack made of some fabric Frequently, whereas today, leather is really aspirational. It tends to be that a leather satchel or a leather pocket or a leather waist purse would be something for perhaps the lower orders, depending on how finely worked it is. When you're looking at somebody who's very elite, there are two types of pockets. There's the one that sort of sits underneath a dress and that can be absolutely enormous. You can fit a good couple of liter drinks bottle in it. It's got to the waist and you can fish in through your skirts. You find a little hole and it's completely protected. 

05:27

There's also a pocket or pouch that you would put on your belt and if you are an elite person, that is going to be velvet or silk, maybe with blackwork or goldwork. Through it you might embroider something that yourself you can personalise it. You might have a series of pockets to match either your outer garments of your outer dress or potentially your undergarments. So you can mix and match in the way that you would paste together bits of outfits, so you might put different sleeves on or under sleeves and it becomes very fashion forward but also very functional. These are small things that you can just put useful bits and pieces in. What I think is also interesting is that there is a potential that this might have been the purpose of the cod piece. Everyone sort of thinks well, what's that for that ridiculous bulge at the front of a man's pants and it is a part of me Other than childbearing. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

06:29

I'm not really sure myself. So there you go. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

06:34

And there's that there is a suggestion because I believe there were a collection of cod pieces found in a draw which must have been a surprise, to be honest that in addition to acting as the sort of fly of a man's trouser the thing they can undo to go to the toilet quickly, what it also is is there's a space to it that you can put valuables, maybe coins or a ring, and so it has that function of being able to place where you can secrete things that you would normally put, perhaps, in a handbag. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

07:05

Do you think, though? So, from my research, I have this giant dossier, the history of a handbag, just so I'm able to speak about this with some sort of intelligence and stuff. The evolution of what a handbag truly represented historically, from what I've gathered, was always perceived lower class, because if you were upper class, you'd have someone carrying your things, you would be buying everything on credit, and the zipper wasn't invented until what? The 1920s. So this essence of actually carrying a handbag was perceived so much lower class until, at one point, somebody realized, hey, I can glam that up too, I want a piece of that. So how do you think the evolution of something that was meant to be discreet right evolved to being an aspirational item? 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

07:57

My inclination is that you start seeing increasingly a use of designer handbags and decorative handbags and wristlets and evening bags and all the rest of it as the lines of clothing, particularly women's clothing, start to shrink down, as the proportions start to get smaller, when you haven't got 50 centimetre panniers that you can route around in, when you are looking to create that hourglass silhouette, there isn't the space for those pockets. And that is, of course, the argument as to why women's trousers don't have proper pockets, because it ruins the lines, I think. Additionally, and I think becomes more your period of mind. But the real peak of that aspirational designer handbag I don't necessarily know how much that affects people who don't carry money today, and by that I mean the royal family. They are still, I think, inhabiting a world where they have the tiny purse or the clutch bag. It's very similar to the pocket at the belt. You don't necessarily know who's made it, it's not got branding on it that you know. It's kind of a l'huitant or Christian duro or whatever else. It's something that's understated that much of the outfit. 

09:17

I believe Princess Diana used to use hers to cover her cleavage, like it had the function of being almost like a fan. What we see is an increasing level of disposable income. We see a broadening out of the super wealthy that goes above the middle class, and that aspiration comes with a desire to present yourself in ways that are recognizably expensive, and so I think when that starts to happen and these pre-reporter to designer brands exist, that's when you get this craving for bags that perform things, that carry all of your stuff in it. I do wonder how many people are putting loads of stuff in an actual Birkin. I've got to be honest. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

10:07

They're really heavy. Functionality wise they are heavy. Heavy bags Like they're not. It's not made of lamb skin. You know they are sturdy, heavy bags and I've spoken about this with other people on the podcast that when Mark Jacobs bags became popular in the early 2000s it should have come with an orthopedist number, because before you even put anything in it, with the hardware, the closures, the leather, they were super heavy. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

10:35

It's really interesting because to me it seems like a pure status symbol, because when you've got to get somewhere quickly and you've got to actually carry a lot of stuff, the majority of people, who don't necessarily care about the lines of the outfit, whack it in a backpack, right, right. I think it's fascinating because I do still think that we have people who are still operating on that level of we don't carry big handbags. You aren't going to see a member of the royal family carrying a big bag. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

11:06

Right, because to this day, if anybody is at a certain socioeconomic level, they will never be seeing carrying a lot of stuff because they have other people to carry it for them. Yeah, absolutely. So I want to ask you, just based on your research because these are things that I always find interesting, speaking about lines of clothing and so forth the closures of handbags and how they've evolved, right? So, with every and this kind of mic ball a little off topic with every major worldwide disaster, if you go back to the Spanish flu, if you go back to the plague, what has happened post is that there is this wild renaissance of wild materials and, in addition to that, also upcycling, using local bits and bobs around the house because no one was able to go out and had an impacted fashion and how people designed. And again, this fascinates me that so few people are even talking about that. 

12:08

Now, like post pandemic, you have upcycling being a massive trend. You have party bags coming back. How do you think? Number one, do you agree and do you have any thoughts on that? And number two, the closures of bags, because if you go way back when to the plague and so forth, in the Spanish flu, the invention of the zipper, how quickly people needed to have access to their items, and so forth. I know this is like a heavy question, but I love you to speak about this if you have any thoughts. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

12:40

Yes, I think very early bags or pouches. They were much more easy access. If you think about a pocket that goes under a garment, there is no closure. You just you route straight in Right With a leather kind of bag or pocket or pouch that sits on your belt. They will frequently have either a drawstring they might have a drawstring plus a flap with a button or even a buckle. So those are in some ways, I think, easier to get into than a zippered item. There is a lot of ease of access. From my experience and from my understanding when it comes to pockets, pouches and early bags what, if you may want to call it? There doesn't seem to me to be a lot of development in terms of appearance, closure or technology from the medieval period through the early modern. They seem to. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

13:41

they might be. What time period is really modern? Just to clarify. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

13:46

Well, everybody will fight you on that. But it broadly speaking runs alongside the Renaissance. But in the Academy people say Renaissance is an art movement, so early modern, depending on really what you want to study. Some people start in about 1400 and they'll go all the way up to the Enlightenment. Some people will say it ends earlier but it's Shakespeare etc. 

14:11

Pre germ theory, those kinds of previous method, essentially the bags that I have seen, even when they aren't designed to be worn on the waist, they all pretty much follow a similar vein. There's one bag that we have from the period which has got a potentially interesting history. I don't know how gory I can get. No, I'll go, go, go. So I'm fairly sure that Walter Raleigh will be a fairly well-known name. Walter Raleigh gets himself into spots of bother throughout his life. He ends up being imprisoned thrice in the Tower of London, the first time in the reign of Elizabeth, because he marries one of her ladies in waiting without permission. Elizabeth Throckmorton Queen is not happy about that. They both get banged up as you do. She does like to bang people up in the tower and they get married without permission. That is a pastime of hers. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

15:07

Love a good tower banishment. It's just at the top of my to-do list. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

15:12

Walter Raleigh had a fairly nice time in the Tower of London. I bet he's staying in what's now called the Bloody Tower but was at the time called the Garden Tower far more salubrious. He has all of his friends to visit. He writes books, he makes medicines. He has a brilliant time. Yeah, the second imprisonment is the longer one. In that one he's been mixed up in the plots against James I and of England, sixth of Scots, which seeks potentially to replace him with his cousin Arbella Stewart. So for that that's a treason. He's back in the Garden Tower still having a lovely time. I bet he like went to stuff there, just didn't bother. Really just keep it open for me. I'm sure I'll be back. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

15:56

Yeah, Don't change the Wi-Fi password, I'll be back pretty much. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

16:01

Exactly, don't fiddle with my garden, I'll be needing that. Then he convinces James that he knows where El Dorado is and if he lets him go then he'll definitely find it. And James is like, well, okay, but just so long as you do not fight the Spanish, we're friends with them now, don't fight the Spanish. Raleigh's like Corsair Majesty, off I go. What does he do? Hicks a break. Hicks doesn't find El Dorado. So he for some reason comes back to England, possibly to make sure that his wife is okay and his family. So he is once again banged up back in the Tower. This time it's going to be a much shorter stay. Bess Throckmorton is begging for clemency. So Walter's back in the Tower in 1618. And this last time she's begging for clemency A few months later, still in 1618, he is taken from the Tower and he is beheaded. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

16:55

We are told that it takes. That slows things down quite a bit. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

16:59

It does slow the being liberated and trying to find El Dorado which doesn't exist thing down again, we're told. It does take two blows to sever his head. His head then potentially goes missing. We're told that Bess takes it away in a red leather bag. However, there has been found at West Horsley Place, which is in the attic of this West Horsley Place where Bess did live with her son, there is a red velvet bag with what looks to be goldwork detailing and the story goes that Bess transferred Walter's head from the leather bag into the velvet bag and that she carried it with her everywhere she went, including to parties. Now, I don't know about you, but when my kid has come home from a play date party and he's got some bag of tuts with like sweets and cars and all sorts of plastic that we don't want, I now feel very grateful that he's not brought home something for the bag. I hope your parties, I mean. But here's the deal. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

18:13

We are way too involved in our kids' lives right now. So you know, we would know, and back in the day I don't think people really had the bandwidth to be like, let me go through all your stuff. You know, maybe a lady. He missed a head, though Did your kid. I don't want to get too much into it, but I reckon it would be, you know, quite heavy and you know, yeah. So in conclusion to the head bag did that create a trend? Create a trend in terms of a drawstring bag that, like looked the part, or what was the impact? What was just the fact that she was seeing carrying a bag that happened to potentially have something unnecessary inside? 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

18:53

Honestly, we don't know. There's this story that there was this red velvet bag carrying water's head. There's no indication that suddenly starts a fad for red velvet bags, no, but there is still this surviving bag that was found in the attic and that still exists. It's quite hard to tell from the photographs how big it was, but it does look potentially big enough to hold a head. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

19:17

But to that point, as what I could do, as the story is, do you think that this perhaps normalized seeing bags out that were larger than standard? Do you think that had any impact, at least in the narrative? Whether it's true or not? If you ever wanted to start a handbag brand and you didn't know where to start, this is for you. If you had dreams of becoming a handbag designer but aren't trained in design, this is for you. If you have a handbag brand and need strategy and direction, this is for you. 

19:50

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Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

21:06

I wonder whether the fact that it would be so unusual for a lady of that rank to carry something around with her is part of the peculiarity of it. It certainly doesn't seem to be any evidence of ladies starting to wear big bags or carry big bags it's, and we have some very fashion forward queens that really try things out. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

21:32

Do you think, though, that perhaps could have impacted this construct of novelty bags? I mean? 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

21:39

it's possible because of course there's also the term about the bag of secrets in terms of giving evidence and things that show up in court that these, that kind of bags, are places where you might find unpleasant or secret things in. That seems to be more of a trend I don't necessarily know why if somebody would want that to be associated with them. When women do start carrying accessories it's fans. It starts off with the big round ostrich feather fans and then it goes into the smaller foldout fans. That becomes a thing they carry and once again that's something that can be tied to the wrist or to the belt. They like to be able to keep their hands free. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

22:25

I mean for no manual labor, but Well, you know it's funny speaking about the belt bag, the belt bag, you know, the belt bag has made a wild, it's back, it's made of renaissance, yeah, it's the crossbody bag, or the bum bag as you would call it. 

22:43

But yes, do you think that that could have some sort of post-global pandemic tie-in? Because I've seen just in my own research that this belt bag, it disappears and then it makes a comeback in terms of functionality. It's so interesting nowadays because there's this real space between the useless and the fancy, novelty, mini, the whole thing and then the functional and if you're not carrying a backpack, which are, no matter how you glam it up, backpacks are not pretty, they're not lovely. You can dress it up, but it's still a backpack. But this belt bag is back and it's one of the most popular. Lululemon did one that is probably one of the most knocked off silhouettes right now, and today it's all over TikTok and the dupe of it and so forth. So do you think there's any tie-in to the resurgence of a belt bag? 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

23:47

I think that's really fascinating. I think what you were talking about as well, with the way in which the pandemic changed our relationship to fashion. But also, more and more of us are spending time working from home. There are office days rather than entire office weeks. So that desire for functionality, that desire to when you're out and about, you're going to want to go and grab a coffee, maybe pick up some shopping. You probably don't want to be carrying around a large, fashionable shoulder bag, but you need to have your phone. I mean, certainly in London, where I live, I can go out without my purse. I don't need to carry money anymore because it's all on my phone. I could literally just go out with my phone in my pocket and my keys and I could be done Right. And I've also noticed that fashion has changed utterly. So few of my friends are wearing heels anymore. Very few of my friends are wearing very heavily constructed clothes trousers, skirts. It's very the elasticated waist is. When you see, for example, the Duchess I'm sorry, the Princess of Wales walking around with an elasticated back to her trousers, you realise she's on an official visit and she's wearing elasticated pants. You realise there's been a change in the way N and R relationship to what is smart, and smart clothes can now include elasticated waistband, and so what I think is that's done two things to what? 

25:18

Certainly to my approach to handbag buying that waist bag super helpful. I don't want to have things on my shoulders, I want to be able to move freely and actually having it there, I don't really notice it that much. The other thing it does is when I do want to buy a bag. I want a bag that becomes the outfit, that becomes the statement. So I have actually, since the pandemic, really started collecting novelty bags and there's a company they do bags that are like shop fronts. 

25:46

So I have one that's a bookshop because that speaks to my identity, and I want a bag that's going to last. So I go out and buy a mulberry bag, that in bright red, because most of my clothes are muted. So I think there is definitely in the change of fashion we are seeing a drive to functionality. That means that those waistbags are coming back in. But I think what you're going to see at the other end is people prepared to if they've got it, prepared to spend money on statement bags. Have you noticed that, in terms of fashion trends, there's been a drop off of the really out there fashionable for a single season bag. Are people going more towards traditional styles? 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

26:35

I think the interesting thing about this circular economy and people being able to go on and buy used bags has allowed brands to a few things. I mean, it's allowed brands to, number one, create platforms within their own DTC, direct to consumer space, that if someone's going to buy their bag or wants to sell it back, that at least it's done on their platform. But I think it's also created this opportunity for these brands to expand on their hero bags or anchor pieces or so forth to go back and bring them out again. So it's kind of like what's old is new, but old is still good enough to rebuy. But it allows them to expand on that because the value of it is still there. 

27:22

Again, this is just my opinion, but there's labor, materials, oil, leather so many of these prices. Shipping has gone up so much tremendously that the luxury segment has jumped so dramatically and remains quite inelastic. They used to say it was a lipstick theory, like no matter where the market went up or down, people would always buy lipstick or gas. But in my opinion, luxury the people who buy that will always buy that Ooh, they will remain brand loyal to that. But on the flip side of that, the sweet spot of where everybody else is shopping has remained the same, if not, the prices get pushed down. So I think, speaking to novelty at that price point, a bag that I can constantly buy new ones, those opportunities because people still need to sell, there's it's. We're still commerce based. Like, we're still commerce based. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, people still need to shop and people still need to sell stuff, but unfortunately, fast fashion ain't going anywhere. You know, people can say that it is, but it's just not. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

28:36

Yeah, it's just leaving the high street. 100%, that's what's happening. 100%, yeah, which is again, I think, interesting for your handbag purchase, because when it's on the high street, even at those kind of those low price points of those very fast fashion brands that were on the high street, you could still go in, open that bag up, have a look around, see what size it is, figure out whether you want it to be functional, whereas presumably, if you're buying through an online service, you're getting none of that, so you're just guessing whether it's going to be what you want or not. Interesting. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

29:13

Yeah, I mean as consumers from a retaily, a typological mindset. We still need to have that interaction of Seafield Touch. We still need to have that interaction of trying something on. We still need to have that interaction of seeing does it work with our overall assemble. And I call it the butt face, where you try in the handbag and no matter what, you always look to see how your butt works with the overall bag and you make the face to see if it works, because this is an add-on. 

29:42

Yeah, unlike trousers or shirts or trainers or anything, you always have to see if the bag is going to mess with how your butt looks. It's just part of the process. That's why I call it the butt face. I love that. I love that. Yeah, I mean it is what it is. But again, I was really excited to have you on to speak about how the royals have interacted with handbags and if you think that's had an impact, at least going way back, an impact on things that they may have carried that could have had a trickle-down effect with the people around them. Is there anybody in particular that you think may have had a bigger impact beyond Queen Elizabeth, who just passed? 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

30:22

Yeah, I mean her use of purses. I think pre-photography, and then also because we have lots of pictures, for example, of Queen Victoria, and that it could be all too easy to go. Well, this is going to affect how everybody is going to respond to certain clothing. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

30:41

I mean, that's a early influencer, if you will. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

30:44

Yes. Unfortunately, though, most of the photographs we have of Queen Victoria in her everyday clothes not the kind of Christmas card that Albert puts out most of those are family pictures, so they weren't aired for decades. Right, they couldn't have influenced fashion at the time, because no one is seeing them. When we get to the point of mass photography, but also video cameras and TV cameras watching what the royals are doing, we know that a member of the royal family, particularly a younger member of the royal family, puts on a dress or a purse or whatever else, and goes out into the world. That's going to sell out. Well, you know minutes, hours. Maybe you know there's a Tik Toker who did a series on what can Kate Middleton put in her tiny bags, because it's this, you know what is, and actually quite a lot Doubtful. She puts all of that in there, but she was able to put quite a lot in her tiny bags. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

31:45

Do you reckon she's got snacks in there for the kids? Because I don't. 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

31:48

I would be very surprised if they're allowed to eat in public. It is one of those things that the role of Etika around that that requires quite a bit of teaching to how you properly consume something. And also it's according to de Bret, whatever that might mean, it is very not the dumb thing to be eating on the street walking around. You sit down to eat with a plate Bound for bed. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

32:17

Yes. Do you think to that point Megan still has an impact in terms of fashion, at least within the UK, or do you think that that moment has passed? 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

32:30

from a handbag perspective, it's hard to say because a lot of the looks that we are seeing we're not seeing her casual. There is. We saw her at the Invictus Games. I think that's definitely going to have an effect. I don't remember seeing her because she wasn't in a coat and she wasn't in outerwear. I don't remember seeing her with handbags. She wasn't allowed to wear a coat. Well, at the Invictus Games she wasn't wearing a coat. Oh, okay, she was inside, I think Right, and I didn't see her wearing a handbag. I don't know what she's. 

33:00

When she first came to the UK she was wearing loads of really cute crossbody bags. Yeah, and they were adorable. It's a very Obviously now she's in the States in a very different climate with very different demands on how she is supposed to present herself. Yeah, I think what we are seeing somebody who's still massively influencing fashion, but I don't know if it's in the same way as the Royal's influence fashion, because what they are permitted to do we don't really see Royal casual unless it's like Wellies, polo, etc. On the farm. It's a very English country casual. So it's so different from what we normally see that I think it's still got an influence, but I think it's very different to what it was when she was here, being forced to conform to that little box. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

33:52

Do you think, just so we can wrap up Queen Elizabeth when back in the day, not so much when she was older do you think how she used handbags had an impact on handbag trends overall? I mean, obviously she always had a pension for bright colors and so forth, but do you think, historically speaking, the way she used handbags had an impact, at least within the UK? 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

34:16

I think when it comes to Queen Elizabeth II, there is an element to which her fashion was by design, not cutting edge. It was about a recognizable and quintessentially British style. If you want to go for daring, I think you probably have to look more to her sister, who's kind of pushing the envelope a little bit. Nevertheless, I think when it comes to a timeless classic, the accessories that she wore definitely influence what is seen as being timeless and quintessentially British rather than necessarily being fashion forward and cutting edge. But luxury, quality, classics, class. Those things, I think, definitely are maintained and guided by what's going on there. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

35:10

That's fascinating. I never even thought about that because I've often looked at you know she was obviously, and as far as we've been around she's always been old, right, she's never been young and spry. And as for the Royals and so forth and all the shows where they show her as somebody very young and thrown into something that she obviously didn't sign up for, so much as such a young woman, but to recognize and take what she's worn as what is considered classic is a really interesting thought process. I look at you know what is that overall impact? And that's true. What she carried and has continued to carry up until she passed is absolutely what is considered a classic. So that's an interesting construct. So I think you know, in terms of some key takeaways, would be, if you're looking to see from a trickle down effect, what would be perceived at least from a socioeconomic perspective, because obviously what somebody means is what's dictating overall, what's going to be. It would be more so what's considered the classics as opposed to what's considered cutting edge, would you? 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

36:21

agree? 

36:22

I think so, and I think when it comes to what members of the royal family and particularly what the monarch consumes, the royal warrant or the royal mark, you know. 

36:33

So when you get that crest above the stuff that you make, that says that you know, basically, the Queen likes this thing or the King likes this thing carrying that, you have had to get to such a point that you're recognised by the royal household, that you are consumed and bought on a daily basis by the royal household, and then once you get that stamp, that stamp of royal approval, that then I think positions you as just indomitably classic, quintessentially British, quintessentially upper class. And then it becomes the thing that if it's this, then it's must be quality, luxury, longevity, all of those things that staying power. I almost wonder and I think that this is something we'll have to, we'll determine hundreds of years from now if part of the reason why that royal mark gets that understanding culturally is because of the longevity of Her Majesty the Queen, that somehow her mark and her reign almost osmos onto the brand, the purse she carries, the shoes she wears, that because she's been around forever and she's worn these for ages, they law are of good quality because they've got her mark. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

37:48

I wonder do you think, even dating back before her, that that would have been the same case, that even from pictures or drawings and so forth, from past monarchs and so forth, that they carried the same effect from a pre dating, obviously, pictures and photography Do you think that was the same trend, that it would have been the case to have that same impact? 

Dr. Katrina Marchant

Host

38:11

The royal patronage of artists, musicians, glaciers, house builders, whatever it, from big to small jewellery makers. We know the effect of royal patronage, the fact that somebody like Hans Holborn the Younger is so well known that his art, his faces are how we view the Tudor court. That speaks to the vanity of royal patronage, and also how much and what an effect a royal patron can have on the longevity and recognizability of an individual's work down the centuries. I think absolutely those makers that get that kind of royal war and that royal ascent, they become timeless. 

Emily Blumenthal

Host

38:54

We could talk all day about this. This has been so much fun. I would love to you know, as time progresses and we start seeing new things pop up, new trends, I would love to have you back for us to continue this conversation and talk about. You know the effect and impact of things from Yonder and yesterday year in terms of what they and how they tie into what's going on today. So if that works for you, I'd love to have you back. I'd love to Dr Katrina it has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the Handbag Designer 101 podcast. Thank you so very much. Thank you, thanks for listening. Don't forget to rate and review and follow us on every single platform at Handbag Designer. Thanks so much, thank you. 




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